I Can't Recall; Are We Mad at Mark McGwire or did that Pass?

Discussion in 'Baseball Talk' started by cinderr, Sep 4, 2013.

  1. cinderr

    cinderr Member

    I've sort of forgotten what went down with McGwire after he broke those batting records. Tested positive, if I remember correctly but are we still mad at him? Did he have to give up his records and awards? What is he doing now?
  2. JoshSmith100

    JoshSmith100 Member

    Well its really up to you if your mad at him. If you care about the integrity of the game, which most fans do, you should be mad at him. If you test positive for performance enhancing drugs your cheating. He currently is the hitting coach for the Los Angeles Dodgers.
  3. cinderr

    cinderr Member

    Same as Ryan Braun, huh? In Wisconsin, we are steamed! Braun was almost busted prior to his big bust but he never learned a thing. Now he is just an unsavory memory.

    I guess what I meant by that is, have we forgiven him? Americans have short memories you know.
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 18, 2013
  4. IQless1

    IQless1 Active Member

    Some do, some don't.

    It's not that your question is "silly", it's just worded in a way that is going to allow for multiple answers, where you appear to believe only one will be necessary.

    Do "we" forgive him? Yes, and no.

    Some of us do, some of us don't. Your question is going to have multiple answers. Which answer is "right" depends on your own personal opinion, but a lot of people are going to disagree with that opinion. American tend to be an opinionated people. ;)
  5. thajayz

    thajayz Member

    I have a Mark Mcgwire rookie card so we are not mad at him! That passed! Ha-ha. Personally, I am mad at all of those cheaters. How could we not be? They made baseball's offensive records meaningless for the most part. A-rod setting the grand slams record is as much of a joke as Mcgwire's single season home run mark which was only surpassed by another cheater Bonds.
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 30, 2013
  6. ChiPhil

    ChiPhil New Member

    I definitely think there are some players who handle it better than others and subsequently suffer less back-lash. Andy Pettitte is one who got ahead of the media storm and apologized and told the press when he used and what he used and why.
    It's seems clear that the media at least forgives a bit when users provide some sort of information and seem regretful.
    I think McGwire being a coach is probably in part due to him seeking redemption of some kind and I think it is slowly working.
    Jason Giambi is another player who seems to have escaped some serious criticism for his steroid use because he has developed into such a "clubhouse leader".
    The question I have though is, will there be a difference in card values between players who have handled it poorly (Braun, etc.) and those who have handled it a bit better (Pettitte, etc.).
  7. thajayz

    thajayz Member

    I really do not think that the cards will have a value difference based on how the cheaters are perceived by the media and the public. I could be wrong though. To me, a cheater is a cheater. I don't care if the alleged reasoning behind the cheating is that the player was trying to recover quickly from an injury (Andy Pettite). Why would anyone believe that? It's just a convenient way to explain a wrongdoing.
  8. TimmyH6

    TimmyH6 Guest

    I gave up being mad at everyone in baseball long ago. They knew what was going on during the so-called "Steroids Era" and did nothing about it. Heck I knew guys who played ball with me back in the 1980's who were using. If a country boy like myself saw it then somebody in MLB and those who cover it had to have known. Those who got suspicious and mentioned anything about it were told that they didn't know what they were talking about.

    Baseball is a business. As long as the home runs that were being hit generated revenue no one was going to do a thing about drugs. Heck, MLB still makes money off of highlight films that include McGwire, Sosa, Bonds and the like.

    When you accept sports for what they are (a business), you don't get mad at those who are in it for doing things that we think are unethical. Are they wrong? Yes. Should we accept cheating? No. But it is up to the sport to keep itself clean and if they don't we can always spend our dollars on something else.
    IQless1 likes this.
  9. thajayz

    thajayz Member

    I'm mad at all cheaters. I don't care if it was 99% of the sport. They all deserve to be punished. They all should have to pay back every penny of their salaries. I have no sympathy for any of them. I don't forgive and I don't forget. And yes, I am also mad at Bud Selig as he is the one who let this all happen.
  10. TimmyH6

    TimmyH6 Guest

    Yes they deserve to be punished. I think what baseball should do to those who are caught is void their contract, suspend them for one calender year and then put them back into the amateur draft no matter how many years they have in the majors.

    Once in the draft, they can not be picked higher than the fifth round and can only sign for the minimum. From there, they must report to the lowest class of the minors and work their way up. Along they way, they must pass mandatory and random drug tests. One failed test and its suspension and back to the beginning.

    By doing it this way you make it so teams are no longer obligated to keep a player on their roster or pay them. You also give the player a chance to redeem himself by making him prove his legitimacy as a ballplayer. Along the way, if a player is caught using drugs it will be found out before they make it back to the majors. Also, sending a player back down to the low minors would be an embarrassment to them. Do you really thing that a player with as big an ego as Alex Rodriguez would want to go back to riding the bus?
  11. thajayz

    thajayz Member

    I would definitely void the contract. Though the players' union would put up a big fight. I also agree that they should only make the league minimum after being found positive for illegal supplements. The negative reinforcement has to be strong enough to force the players to not try the supplements even once. That's a great idea about making them play in the minors. It should be a mandatory part of the punishment.
  12. sillylucy

    sillylucy Member

    I was mad at first, but now I am over it after the whole Lance Armstrong scandal. We put too much pressure on athletes to be the best and to be super human. It's unreasonable so it doesn't surprise me that they turn to extra help. I'm not at mad at him, but I'm not a huge fan either.
  13. rand paul

    rand paul New Member

    Cheating is cheating. End of......
    When you win with the help of steroids you screwing another athlete out of there
    rightful position.
    Now I understand there under a lot of pressure but im sure they can somehow
    afford anxiety medication with there massive contracts.:p
  14. mgm37

    mgm37 New Member

    Big Mac didn't test positive. He was seen using a supplement called Androstene which at the time was legal. The trouble for him came from the Jose Canseco tell all book.
  15. benderjl1

    benderjl1 New Member

    I think that time has passed. There was a great article on him lately in a Sports Illustrated. He is a coach and talks about how much he regrets his decision and how he as made it a lesson to talk about with his children. I think he is one of the few that have admitted their wrongdoings and moved on to be a contributing citizen in society. I forgive him.
  16. MegaZero

    MegaZero New Member

    Not really mad because after the Lance Armstrong incident, I can't really tell who is a great athlete and who is not. Hell, I won't even be surprised if Micheal Phelps was tested not positive.

    The world is filled with greedy people and people who want to win. Live with it.
  17. Clowntown

    Clowntown New Member

    I am mad at him. I too believe that what he did was flat out cheating. I don't care how much pressure it is. Someone with integrity will be strong and turn away from cheating. The fact that he is a batting coach is stupid. He has a great job, doing something he loves and making a ton of money. I do not feel that taking him out of the game was a good enough punishment. I feel that he should have been taking out of the sport sot hat he can not influence other athletes to follow his bad example.
  18. chase88

    chase88 New Member

    I saw an interesting article on ESPN.com recently about these managers that coached the "cheaters" getting inducted into the Hall of Fame. I never really thought about it that way, but it makes sense. If Mark McGwire can't get inducted because he cheated, then why should his manager?

    I know it's not the manager's fault that he was cheating, but the reality is that he was coaching that was so some of the wins should be tainted. Don't get me wrong, I think the coaches that got inducted deserve it completely, but it was an interesting article and really got me thinking about it. Does anyone else have an opinion?
  19. nowicki2013

    nowicki2013 Member

    I'm personally not mad at Mark McGwire anymore. I was pretty disappointed at first when I found out he was using steroids but that's just because he was Mark McGwire. He was still a star before the steroid use and he'll always be one of the big names in baseball either way. I just wish he and other stars wouldn't cheat in the first place and ruin their name and fame that they had in the first place.

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